Admin Note[]
Before writing nonsense about concerning Leo's gender, please actually read the article and dont use derogatory terms. Also spellcheck is a great thing, try it sometime. --Seddielover12 (talk) 00:33, March 3, 2020 (UTC)
Thoughts on Leo's Gender[]
Why does this article use both masculine and feminine adjectives for Leo? 75.65.184.166 04:49, January 17, 2010 (UTC)curious passerby
- Because some think it's a girl and some other think it's a boy.
Because Leo's gender is a mistery (and on purpose). If you've actually read the article you wouldn't have asked this question. Fuel Synchron 22:52, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
People, stop adding birthdays to characters. It's really misguiding, and stupid. It is a boy.
After checking several OFFICIAL translations on Tekken's official website, in languages that can not be neutral, Leo is always identified as a boy, even on his story page.
So the very least would be to remove "her" in sentences like "her fighting style" on the page ... and the translation fact should be added to trivia.
Oh and I forgot, CHANGE THE ACTUAL GENDER... It might be complicated, but more things point out to Leo being a boy... So why would he be a girl exactly ? People can have their own opinion, but judging facts only, it's impossible to see Leo as a girl so while no definite answer is given (if you don't think there's enough proof) he sould be listed as a male.Ataradesu (talk) 23:37, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
That guy is wrong. Do you know why does the OFFICIAL translations in other languages list Leo as him? Because in other countrys, such as mine (Brazil), WE DON'T HAVE a specific neutral pronoun. We use "ele". Ele means "he", "him". This is OUR neutral pronoun, and probably english is a exception for 'oh hey we have a neutral yay!' Now stop discussing, specially with this [[1]] (link is with error, just remove anything after the .jpg). Or I'll get mad, seriously. I'm even sure that Harada already twitted 'LEO IS A GIRL YAY'. Redside12 (talk) 00:37, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, there's no mystery anymore, people, Harada confirmed Leo's a girl at the German showing of Blood Vengeance. He even revealed her full name is Eleonora. A female name. So we can stop it with the gender neutrality in the article. 70.27.72.21 05:35, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
^You are a bit too late, we already stopped with this a long time ago.195.67.78.50 09:30, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
about the name: greetings from germany, just want to add that "leo" is also quit common for "leonie" in germany. leonie is one of the most common names for females starting back in 1970 and in topspot from around 1990-1995 till now. same goes for the male version "leon" the male nr.1 name from 1994-1998 till now. basically "leo" is used by both male and female, and it's really quit common
217.231.62.147 23:51, December 21, 2012 (UTC)lalala
Tekken 6 voice[]
What proof do you have that Taylor was her voice? Yes she did voice for Dissidia, but that doesn't automatically mean she's this character. The voice hardly resembles hers. I may not have a substitute to back up my claim, but I'm sure of at least this much: that's not Veronica Taylor, just as T6 Endings Christie wasn't Laura Bailey. HubStyle (talk) 01:57, January 9, 2015 (UTC)
Do you have proof that it isn't? Or is this just failure to realize Taylor can in fact do more voices than just her own and Ash Ketchum's? TheSwedishElf (talk) 14:47, April 2, 2015 (UTC)
Gender[]
The official websites have made LEO a male fighter.
http://eu.tekken.com/#!/en/characters
http://us.tekken.com/#!/en/characters
Yu-Narukami (talk) 03:19, January 28, 2016 (UTC)
Messages[]
As you can see Leo is in the Male fighter's
Yes, and she has male customs in 7 (including the goatee) and is affected by Heihachi's headbutt carnival. Now, what's your point? Toilethead101 18:41 27 January, 2016
Tekken Tag Tournament 2[]
First of all is non-canon so is the statement on LEO's gender.
Second is why put LEO as a male fighter on the official websites if the "She" is female.
Third as you stated has "Male costumes".
So give more ammunition.
Suggestion on how to approach Leo's gender[]
Bringing up the suggestion of not placing a gender in the infobox or in the rest of the article until a definitive statement for Leo's gender can be found. If it comes up in Tekken 7, then we could use that (with a screencap for documentation of course).
Yes, Leo has a female body and has bikini options in TTT2. But considering it is technically non-canon -- plus there is still the possibility of the character being transgender -- it can still be considered murky territory. Once it was stated that Harada said they were female in an interview, but naturally I think don't we shouldn't place that here until the source can be actually be linked to in the references.
The discussion of Leo's gender is in the trivia instead, anyways. Perhaps it could be instead cleaned up and placed into an actual section of its own? Since it still is a factor of the character and should be made clear (since the whole point of a wiki is to objectively present all known information about a subject). Just list the objective things about the characters gender/gender-related portrayal such as the clothing options, what pronouns are used in each game, etc. etc.. Things like "I live in Germany and they sound like a german boy" or "There's no way a man wears pants like that" aren't objective.
What do you guys think?
Reimeille (talk) 04:21, December 23, 2016 (UTC)
Search up "Leo Female Tekken", you'll get images of Leo in a bikini for Tag 2's customization. Unless Leo has Gynecomastia (The disorder that causes men to grow breasts due to some surge in estrogen), there is no way breasts can be contested. Link to Harada actually confirming it back at Germany [2]
User:Toilethead101 (talk) 20:53, December 28, 2016 (PST)
Here's another source for y'all, Reimeille: ELEONOR AIN'T A BOY'S NAME. And I think it's hilarious that someone is now actually trying to argue that they didn't make Leo androgynous for that purpose or that whether Harada actually said what he did or not is up to debate.
PS. Not conforming to gender norms =/= being transsexual or nonbinary or whatever. Tomboys have existed in life and media for a very long time, pal. You just made yourself look even more like a Tumblrina there, in fact, cause they LOVE to proclaim that it's time to put an end to stereotyping and judging someone's identity or sexuality by their lack of conforming to gender roles and then go "Oh, x doesn't conform to certain gender norms and has certain physical traits? Well then, that MUST mean they're y!" TheSwedishElf (talk) 07:29, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
I saw this Tweet of Harada about Leo. [2] I tried to translate it to understand what there was written. There's a fan who made a question about Leo's gender and Harada stated that Leo's gender is officially unknown. How can you see there still are people who are confused about the character's gender also after the announcement.
Daniele199 (talk) 12:31, January 6, 2017 (UTC)
Leo is referred to as he/him in the newly-launched English Tekken 7 website . Considering this is the most recent canon entry in the series, either this means that: it was a typo/miscommunication, Leo's appearance in TTT2 (re: the bikini) is non-canon and the character is a cis-gendered male, or Leo is female-to-male transgender. Like I said about half a year ago :)
This doesn't preclude Leo having different genders in different regions (a sort-of Poison scenario, for those who play Street Fighter), and therefore the character could still be either cis female or "unknown" in Japan. But since the TTT2 appearance was still released in the English region, it would mean that (at least in the English territories) the scenarios I listed above are the only possibilities. And as this is the English wiki, it's relevant to this page even if it's not the original Japanese.
Reimeille (talk) 18:33, May 24, 2017 (UTC)
Another thing i want to add: in this image you can see all Leo's personal customizations (not common clothes given to all characters). At the bottom you can see that Leo has got a vintage swimwear with pectorals shape and muscular legs (different from the bikini)
Daniele199 (talk) 21:56, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
You guys know that arguing over his/her gender is pointless in the first place because
1. The purpose of Leo is to be a genderless character that anyone can enjoy
2. Regardless of the clothing style that occurs in 7, when 8 comes out they're just going to change the style to female again to keep players from settling on whatever gender (which, I repeat is unimportant) Leo is.
Vostok Apollo (talk) 23:55, June 5, 2017 (UTC)
Alright guys. I read a Japanese article[3] about Leo and I found and interesting thing. Leo never has been female. But neither male.
Harada said that he when was creating the character he was going to make a German girl called Eleonore Kliesen. But when he saw from the concept arts that Leo had been drawn as a young boy he decided instead that it would have been funny to make him ambiguous. As matter of fact, in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Leo has got two swimsuits: a male swimsuit and a female bikini. That’s because it’s a player’s choice to make Leo male or female: Leo has simply an unknown gender. At the Premiere of Blood Vegeance, in Cologne, he only announced that the old concept of Leo was Eleonore Kliesen but he never said that Leo had got a gender.
There’s also a tweet[4] about this
- Fan: I’m sure you get this question over and over again, but Leo’s gender is unknown, right? My friend keeps saying that Leo is a girl!!! Please answer!!!
- Harada: That was when the character’s name hadn’t even been finalized that it was a girl. But, midway, we completely revamped the concept. That’s how it is. So, officially, Leo is unknown.
To know other please, read the Japanese article.
Thanks to an user on gamefaqs
EDIT: Alright guys. There are a lot of proofs that confirms that Leo's gender always has been unknown. First of all, in the Nico Nico live (that you can find here[5]) Harada stated that Leo's gender always has been unknown. In Germany he never revealed Leo's gender but he only did a comment about its creation. However, he revealed Leo's old name (that has been used during the initial concept). Also, Harada stated that the video about Leo's gender revealing in Germany has been modified and it has been cut back and forth. He explained the presence of two swimsuits in Tag Tournament 2 by saying that they are for those who want Leo to be a male or a female. He even declared himself frustrated because western fans keep using female pronoun to refer to Leo. Also, there's another tweet about Leo's that confirms everything: this[6] and another where he reply to a fan's complaint about Leo's customs[7] because despite being of unknown sex, Leo had got only male customs. --Daniele199 (talk) 11:32, June 11, 2017 (UTC) 11:32, June 11, 2017 (UTC)
Leo referring to themselves as male in German[]
Leo's winning line "Lucky me." is translated as "Ich Glücklicher." in the German version of Tekken 6 and 7, meaning "I'm a lucky [guy]". Leo is unmistakably referring to themselves as male with that line.
In German, it sounds very off to use genderneutral pronouns to refer to other persons so it seemed like a mere translation oversight in Tekken 6 at first.
In Tekken 7, however, that exact line is actually spoken by the character in German. This may not definitely confirm Leo's gender but it at least possibly reveals their gender identification in this game. So it may be worth mentioning in the trivia.
Ligiiihh (talk) 23:12, March 2, 2020 (UTC)
Just a short compliment[]
I really like this character. This transgendered German guy/gal. Glad they put Leo in the series, it's so diversive and enriching, really. I like minorities. That aside, I don't really play as Leo because Leo's moveset kind of succks.
Damon Redwood (talk) 14:35, March 20, 2019 (UTC)
Re:Just a short compliment[]
lmao. its not confirmed if leo is transgender. (he's probably just gender neutral) but if he is, he would definitely be a transgender male (born, female, transitioned to male). "I like minorities" weird way to show your support but okay. lol leo's move set is awesome, you probably just dont know his controls. --Seddielover12 (talk) 00:33, March 3, 2020 (UTC)
Leo's voice actor[]
It's unmistakably Philipp Zieschang as one can confirm after listening to his voice clips on his agency webpage: https://www.stimmgerecht.de/sprecher/1645/Philipp-Zieschang.html
About that video in Cologne...[]
So there's a thing I'd like to talk about: the Tekken Blood Vengeance video in Germany. Many people still use that video as a way to confirm that Harada said that Leo is female (also the wiki, in the Trivia section, states that Harada confirmed Leo to be female at first). Since it's a misconception that's still common in Tekken community, I've recently watched the video again to see exactly what the producer says. At 02.06, Harada says 'Motomoto josei kyara to shite tsukuttemashita' (もともと女性キャラとして作ってました。) which translates to 'I originally made them as a female character' and Murray, as a matter of fact, translates it as 'there was a female actually'. One thing I'd like you to focus on is how Harada literally didn't use a present tense but said that Leo was originally created as a female character (he then later added more in-context pieces of info about the situation). I guess that there was a misconception by the playerbase but I dunno if it should be added in the trivia: I'm more inclined to say yes as it isn't a 'direct' confirmation. What do you think? EDIT. I just think it should be elaborated more in the trivia. Daniele199 (talk) 19:55, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for this clarification. Well spotted, I'll update the trivia section on Leo's page. Erenaeoth (talk) 21:32, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- So, by this point, Leo is finally established as a gender-neutral character of unknown gender, whose gender is determined only depending on the headcanons of a that or thuse player? Well, on the one hand I'm glad that Harada essentially approved the original position, but on the other hand I'm sad that we lost so many years due to incorrect translation. ShibaBrother (talk) 15:32, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- The problem is that nobody bothered to check facts ahah. But on the other hand, most resources about Leo's development are in Japanese language; thus, only those who know Japanese can understand them. I've found out the real situation when, in a forum, an user explained to us the situation and it made sense. So I checked on Japanese wikis if that was the truth, and hell yea: they reported different things from the English wikis.Daniele199 (talk) 19:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not even talking about the reputational cost, because initially it sounded like Harada had given up and made a retcon to satisfy complaints from people who simply couldn't accept that an androgynous character's gender was unknown. While he gave a fairly detailed and understandable explanation about this. But anyway, thanks for the additional information. I don’t even know how much and how long this could have strengthened if there had not been the Internet or at least a fandom wiki. ShibaBrother (talk) 20:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- I remember reading a tweet in which Harada said that he was surprised when, many years ago, found out that most western players see Leo as a female and commented that keeping Leo's gender ambiguous was convenient as giving a definite gender could've brought chaos to the fandom. I'm happy to clarify all doubts, even though work is not done because there are still a lot of general wikis which show wrong information. However, I've stopped correcting everyone and I instead made sure wiki pages reported correct info (which now they do, even with resources!). Still, people don't care what's the official stance but whatever. Truth must be told ahah! Daniele199 (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- I thought the same thing literally until this day, until their new trailer came out and people literally pointed out in the comments that their gender was intentionally hidden, while others were arguing about whether Leo was a woman, a man, a trans, etc. For some reason, even if the authors explicitly say that a character's gender is unknown or hidden, people will still argue about what the character's "really" gender is. Regardless of whether it is implied (in one game the character's gender is deliberately hidden, but their lore implies that they are a trans girl or otokonoko) or as ambiguous as possible. But here everything was complicated by incorrect translation as well. ShibaBrother (talk) 20:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- I remember reading a tweet in which Harada said that he was surprised when, many years ago, found out that most western players see Leo as a female and commented that keeping Leo's gender ambiguous was convenient as giving a definite gender could've brought chaos to the fandom. I'm happy to clarify all doubts, even though work is not done because there are still a lot of general wikis which show wrong information. However, I've stopped correcting everyone and I instead made sure wiki pages reported correct info (which now they do, even with resources!). Still, people don't care what's the official stance but whatever. Truth must be told ahah! Daniele199 (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not even talking about the reputational cost, because initially it sounded like Harada had given up and made a retcon to satisfy complaints from people who simply couldn't accept that an androgynous character's gender was unknown. While he gave a fairly detailed and understandable explanation about this. But anyway, thanks for the additional information. I don’t even know how much and how long this could have strengthened if there had not been the Internet or at least a fandom wiki. ShibaBrother (talk) 20:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- The problem is that nobody bothered to check facts ahah. But on the other hand, most resources about Leo's development are in Japanese language; thus, only those who know Japanese can understand them. I've found out the real situation when, in a forum, an user explained to us the situation and it made sense. So I checked on Japanese wikis if that was the truth, and hell yea: they reported different things from the English wikis.Daniele199 (talk) 19:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Also I've found another tweet in which Harada literally says that he left Leo's gender open to interpretation, by explaining also the reason. As before, I don't know if it's redundant information, so I'm leaving the tweet here. Daniele199 (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Is he talking about interpretations in general or in relation to Leo? Because I think you should contact the content administrator, since Harada's opinion may be interesting in the context of fan feedback from the game. ShibaBrother (talk) 21:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Basically after replying to the yet question about Leo's gender (to which he said 'It doesn't matter, right?' ) he wondered why people always asked that question. A Japanese fan explained that gender identity was a recurring topic nowadays, as LGBTQ+ representation was considered important and that's why many people asked those kind of questions (by adding that the reply given to Harada was perceived by fans as him saying that Leo was Non-binary). Harada then said that when he explained the making of Leo's character in Germany, the reaction of the audience was split down the middle (joy and dismay). Therefore, it was important to leave room for everyone's own interpretation because reaction might be divided if he explained the production process in detail or gave a precise stance about the question. Daniele199 (talk) 23:28, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- So, if I understand you correctly, Harada made it clear not only to remind fans of the character's canon lore, but also to avoid controversy/disappointment for both people wanting to see them as a girl/boy, and the LGBTQ audience who might read them as trans or non-binary? ShibaBrother (talk) 23:35, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- I guess so. It's clear that keeping the gender open to interpretation, as it has been planned, is a convenient situation. Also, like reported in trivia, Harada replied to another tweet where he was asked, specifically, if Leo was non-binary (the account of the asker has been deactivated and the question is not visible anymore. I'm searching for an archived version of it). He said: 'I'm no longer aware of such things, and Leo would not want to be categorized as such. In any case, it doesn't matter, right? Leo is Leo, your game character.' Daniele199 (talk) 00:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Then what do you think about expanding this part of the text in connection with new information and providing a link to your tweet? ShibaBrother (talk) 00:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- I guess so. It's clear that keeping the gender open to interpretation, as it has been planned, is a convenient situation. Also, like reported in trivia, Harada replied to another tweet where he was asked, specifically, if Leo was non-binary (the account of the asker has been deactivated and the question is not visible anymore. I'm searching for an archived version of it). He said: 'I'm no longer aware of such things, and Leo would not want to be categorized as such. In any case, it doesn't matter, right? Leo is Leo, your game character.' Daniele199 (talk) 00:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- So, if I understand you correctly, Harada made it clear not only to remind fans of the character's canon lore, but also to avoid controversy/disappointment for both people wanting to see them as a girl/boy, and the LGBTQ audience who might read them as trans or non-binary? ShibaBrother (talk) 23:35, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Basically after replying to the yet question about Leo's gender (to which he said 'It doesn't matter, right?' ) he wondered why people always asked that question. A Japanese fan explained that gender identity was a recurring topic nowadays, as LGBTQ+ representation was considered important and that's why many people asked those kind of questions (by adding that the reply given to Harada was perceived by fans as him saying that Leo was Non-binary). Harada then said that when he explained the making of Leo's character in Germany, the reaction of the audience was split down the middle (joy and dismay). Therefore, it was important to leave room for everyone's own interpretation because reaction might be divided if he explained the production process in detail or gave a precise stance about the question. Daniele199 (talk) 23:28, 25 November 2023 (UTC)